The following is a response to a friend (Gordon) of TTGM who questions if Gentiles need to keep the law of God.

Apologist Response to Gordon

Completed by TTGM – 10.02.2024
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Gordon wrote (GW):
Hey TTGM. I observe that you just love debates about the fine points of scripture. You really relish this. To my detriment and maybe to your pleasure, here i foolishly go…..You clearly disagree with the ruling of James, the Lord’s brother in Acts 15 with respect to Gentiles not needing to follow the Old Testament commandments. See Acts 15: verse 5 and verses 19 and 20.
The question in Acts 15:5 is whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. Peter spoke, then Barnabas and Paul spoke. Finally James, the brother of the Lord, gave the ruling as he was in charge of the church in Jerusalem (not Peter as the Catholics would have you believe). In verse 19-20 James says “Wherefore my sentense is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God. But we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.”
What say ye? I humbly ask.

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In the context of the previous verse it is a reference to the situation where by there had been non Jews who worshiped in synagogues before. They use of “every” is a standard Biblical exaggeration as it clearly could not have been in every city. James is clearly saying that in the past these non Jewish converts to Judaism used to have to follow Moses laws but now since Jesus has come and died for our sins we have a new dispensation and now they should observe these 4 things which were taken from the Mosaic law. We see Jesus saying ” Moses said this….but i tell you…..”. The radical, shocking and revolutionary nature of this statement by Jesus is lost on most people. If you imagine someone saying Jesus said this but i tell you that, you will understand how powerful this statement is. Jesus continually challenged Mosaic law in the woman taken in adultery and seeked to update this and give them a radically different idea of God.

TTGM’s General Response (TR):
(Hey TTGM. I observe that you just love debates about the fine points of scripture); Yes, since the Bible is the roadmap to eternal life we do not play with it. It is God’s word that gives us the answer to eternal life. What can be more important than that? Please note we will draw references from the KJV as the newer Bibles have been corrupted. KJV makes for a more accurate analysis of God’s word. Watch these four videos to understand why.

TTGM RESPONDS SPECIFICALLY TO GW’S REMARKS:
GW:
1. In verse 19-20 James says “Wherefore my sentense is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God. But we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.”
What say ye? I humbly ask.

(Acts 15:20 [KJV])
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

TR:
We need to look at the following verse (21) and then we will follow on with our answer. 
(Acts 15:21 [KJV])
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The early movement of the way (not Christianity), was made up of predominantly Jews who converted to following the way. The Gentiles came into the movement later. Paul (and Peter – Acts 10) the apostle to the Gentiles carried the message of the gospel to them. Paul and the other apostles visited the synagogues to debate and teach the word of God in light of Yeshua’s message.

The apostles and the converted Jews still kept the law of God as Yeshua did (Note, as Jews, they kept the law of God/Moses all of their lives – see Matt 19:20). They followed the way. When the Gentiles came into the way, they were new to the law of God. So what James did was give them the basics of the Torah (this is why we do not disagree with James. James was giving them a start). These four transgressions/sins would have been what the Gentiles previously practiced. The following statement (verse 21) shows that the Gentiles were expected to visit the Synagogues. In visiting the Synagogues they would hear Moses (the law of God/Moses) being read/taught (From Moses they would hear ALL other commandments and be taught how to apply them; eg. they would hear not to steal, lie, not to follow pagan ways, etc., and how to live outside of sin – and not in sin). It is important to note that the Synogougs were TEACHING centres and not ENTERTAINMENT centres as the church world is today. Synagogues taught/preached from the Torah every Sabbath day (Also the Talmud was taught / it was called the oral Torah at that time).

My Answer to Why Trouble Not Them (verse 19):

(Acts 15:19 [KJV])
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Regards to getting the Gentiles circumcised for their salvation; the senior body of believers (apostles and others) would have looked at the law to see what it said (this we will do in this response). If you examine the law, you must ask if it applies to the Gentiles.  You will find that the circumcision (foreskin to be cut) commandments do not apply to Gentiles who have been redeemed in Christ. Let us have a look at when it was first mentioned and ask the questions.

Are Gentiles from the other nations or are they from the seed of Abraham?
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Is a Gentile a man-child of Abraham?
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Is a converted Gentile born in the house of Abraham or bought with money? 
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Again, is a Gentile born in the house of Abraham. Is a Gentile bought with money? 
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

POINTS TO SHOW WHY IT DOES NOT APPLY: When Gentiles come to Christ, they are circumcised in the heart and are purchased by Yeshua’s blood (not money). We are born again in Christ (not of the flesh, but of the Spirit).
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

The apostles would have looked at the law and that is why James said trouble not the Gentiles “with circumcision”. IMPORTANT: We must always examine the law to understand what the commandment means and if it applies.

* * * * * *
GW:
2. In the context of the previous verse it is a reference to the situation where by there had been non Jews who worshiped in synagogues before. They use of “every” is a standard Biblical exaggeration as it clearly could not have been in every city. James is clearly saying that in the past these non Jewish converts to Judaism used to have to follow Moses laws but now since Jesus has come and died for our sins we have a new dispensation and now they should observe these 4 things which were taken from the Mosaic law.

TR
There were no non-Jews in Synagogues worshiping. Non-Jews were Gentiles and they would not be allowed to be in worship with Jews. Jews had nothing to do with Gentiles (see Acts 10:28). UNLESS and in this case, the Gentiles were CONVERTED to the Way. Regarding Synagogues being in every city, you are correct, every only applies to Jewish cities and towns. There were no Jewish Synagogues in pagan cities. Note: We are speaking about righteous Jews who lived in their own communities.

Not a new dispensation, but rather a New Covenant (the new dispensation involves being in the New Covenant). Your doctrine is in error. We are in a New Covenant with God. A covenant is an agreement between two or more parties. God does His part and the body/people of God are to do their part.  Here are the binding words of the New Covenant. Visit Understanding the Covenant/Gospel. It is written.

 (John 14:15 [KJV]) If ye love me, keep my commandments (the believers’ part). 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever (God’s Part);

Not only 4 things (commandments to keep). They have to keep from sin and this means being mindful of all the law of Moses, if not they will live in iniquity (as the church world does today – Read about the works of iniquity). Iniquity/Sin is the transgression of God’s law. AND If you want to live in sin as a new believer, why do you bother to tell God you have repented of your sins? If you are not going to read the law to know what sin is (for the law is our schoolmaster), why lie to God saying you repent?
(1John 3:4 [KJV])
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Have a look at the warning from Paul “about iniquity” as well as “God forbid” re law vs faith. Note: Establish in Greek means to continue.

(2Tim 2:19 [KJV]) – depart from iniquity.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

(Rom 3:31 [KJV]) – God forbid to void the law/Torah (as the Many have done)
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Again I say, your doctrine is in error.

* * * * * *
GW:
3. We see Jesus saying ” Moses said this….but i tell you…..”. The radical, shocking and revolutionary nature of this statement by Jesus is lost on most people. If you imagine someone saying Jesus said this but i tell you that, you will understand how powerful this statement is. Jesus continually challenged Mosaic law in the woman taken in adultery and seeked to update this and give them a radically different idea of God.

TR
First, Yeshua is the Torah/Law/Word of God. He would never challenge what is called perfect. He is not challenging Himself; why would He challenge something that is PERFECT?
(Ps 19:7 [KJV])
The LAW of the LORD is PERFECT, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

What Yeshua is doing is demonstrating how the perfect law should be interpreted and applied in our lives. In the New Covenant, the law is NOW written in the heart of the believer.
(Heb 8:10 [KJV])
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Again, the law has not passed away. What the church world people teach us is a lie. Heaven and earth are still here.
Matt 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

By the way, the church world people do not understand what “fulfill” means in relation to the law or the prophets – Here you can get an understanding of fulfillment tap/click.

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CONCLUSION
Dear Gordon,
TTGM says Christians carry the Bible, but they do not follow it. We have given you our position on Acts 15 and supported it with scripture. You see, the early church fathers turned away from the WAY followed by the Roman Catholic System of religion. They developed a hatred for the Jews and their obedience to the Torah. Watch Presentation 1 to learn more – From  a Yeshua Jew to a Jesus Gentile 

May you be blessed in understanding.

To our Readers
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