IS IT A SHORT DEATH OR AN ETERNAL TORMENT?

The following was my (TTGM) response to Lex on his Youtube channel See Presentation 2 – “The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment | UNLEARN”. Sent to him on 28.04.2019
TTGM’s position is hell is an eternal experience for the damned, watch presentation  1 that gives a complete Biblical representation (same link) – HERE

The following was sent to Lex on his Youtube channel on 28.04.2019

Hello Brother Lex,

I (TTGM) greet you in the name of our Lord and Savior Yeshua,

I have listened to most of your presentations and I have found them well thought out and insightful. May God continue to bless you and your house in your efforts.

I just listened to your presentation on “The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment | UNLEARN”. Again, I found your arguments well thought out and convincing regards to the destruction of the body and soul. I note you believe that the unrighteous that die without Christ will not live on for an eternity but rather their conscious being will come to an end (death).

I was hoping you would go to the verses that speak to an eternal torment but you never did. As you know, we must consider the entire Bible and not only the parts that support our beliefs. What we believe is not important, what is important is that we believe the Word, ALL of it, and with no contradiction.

I will speak about what the word says about eternal torment and I will give my conclusion. I hope you can reply with your answer and show me my error in relation to what you believe. Thanks.

About the Devil’s period of torment – note, forever and ever; notice also the reference to day and night (this is interpreted to mean there is no end to their torment and continuous/eternal).  – It is written.
(Rev 20:10 [KJV])
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here we have the people that worship the beast, again, forever and ever is used and again it includes they will have no rest day nor night (once more, this is interpreted, there is no end to their torment). No rest means forever. The text did not say rest will come at the end of three days or four years.. no rest is no rest and will always be no rest. – It is written.
(Rev 14:11 [KJV])
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Now if you still say to me that forever and ever (and no rest day or night) means for a short time, the following verse must also be for a short time. Notice, the same period is spoken of about God’s glory and dominion – forever and ever. Note: All the Greek words and sentence construction is the same for all the verses quoted in relation to forever and ever. – It is written.
(Rev 1:6 [KJV])
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

In conclusion, if we interpret that God’s glory and dominion is eternal/everlasting (for ever and ever), then to be consistent, we must also conclude that the torment for the lost souls (plus satan and his angels) is eternal (for ever and ever). If on the other hand, you say what applies to man does not apply to God, then you are not being consistent with what the text said and you are being biased in your interpretation. Hence you are in contradiction.

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WHAT DOES DESTROY MEAN?

I will just say a little about “destroy”, as I noted, you see it as an end. I can tell you that there is no end to anything after its “destruction”. Why? Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

There is a scientific law called the Law of Conservation of Mass, discovered by Antoine Lavoisier in 1785. In its most compact form, it states: matter is neither created nor destroyed.

As believers, we know that matter is created by God (so it can be created), but again, I ask what does destroy mean?

When our body is burnt it is not destroyed but rather the state is changed. We return to the earth as dust. We have changed from molecules arranged in water to dust in air (without water). You can take a plane and blow (destroy) it up in a box, it is no longer a plane but all the pieces that made up the plane will be found in the box.

Let us look at the Greek word that was translated “destroy” that Yeshua used to describe the soul. You will notice it can also be translated perish, lose or die. Recall the story of the rich man in conversation with Abraham (both dead men). Also, recall the many stories of people that have died and come back to life. They too tell stories about the afterlife and seeing Yeshua. What am I saying? Consciousness does not stop after our bodily functions cease. IMPORTANT: Death is not the end of our awareness. Watch presentation 1 on this page to see what science has found (after people die).
(Matt 10:28 [KJV])
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Destroy =  G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi (a-pol’-lï-miy) v.

1. to destroy fully.
2. (reflexively) to perish, or lose.

{literally or figuratively}

[from G575 and the base of G3639]

KJV: destroy, die, lose, mar, perish

Now let us look at the Greek word translated destroy (or bring to an end) that Yeshua used in reference to the ending of the commandments. You will notice it is not the same Greek word and it speaks to a definitive end – dissolve, come to nought etc.
(Matt 5:17 [KJV])
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Destroy = G2647 καταλύω kataluo (ka-ta-lï ’-ō) v.

1. to loosen down (disintegrate).
2. (by implication) to demolish.
3. (specially) to halt for the night.

{literally or figuratively}

[from G2596 and G3089]

KJV: destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down

Based on my study on this subject, I cannot agree with you on your conclusion on the death of a person’s soul being a complete end. I believe as God’s glory is forever and ever, the torment of the souls of the dammed is forever and ever (as written). If our Lord had used the same Greek word destroy on or about the souls of the dammed as He did for the commandments, it would merit some consideration in your favor; but He did not.

Lastly, you ask the question if the character of God is sadistic by having Him eternally tormenting people. I think you are applying your human mind and feelings to a God that is not like us. He is beyond our created imagination. For it is written.
(Isa 55:8-9[KJV])
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I look forward to your response. Shalom.

To date, my “friend” Lex never responded.
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SCIENCE CONFIRMS LIFE AFTER DEATH (NEAR DEATH OBSERVATIONS). This confirms the Bible.