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When does marriage begin between a man and a woman? PAGE 4 (Pg1, Pg2, Pg3.)

The Forgotten Meaning?

 

You are on the final page where we do our best to answer from our Lord’s point of view as he demonstrated in the New Testament. May the God of Love, Peace and Harmony speak to your heart as you read on. We pray that you will obey our Lord’s words and that it will be well with you in his soon coming return and the ushering in of his Kingdom on earth.

(all scripture taken from the KJV)

 

We do apologize for standing in His (Jesus) place and trying our best to answer from his sacred lips. Our Majesty (Jesus) is above all that we are and can think. Please note: all attempts were made to remove any opinion from the responses that “Jesus” made.

 

Feel free to contact us as we welcome any challenge to any statements made in this article. In the spirit of transparency (truth) we will be publishing the questions/comments as they come in, as well as our responses. This will allow the church to compare the various perspectives. You can register (below button) to be alerted by email when the response page is available. You can click on the “contact us” button above to send your question/comment.

 

Remember the definition given for “The World’s Church” and “God’s Church from Page 1:

 

Questions & Statements

The World’s Church response (general answers)

God’s Church response (THE LOGOS SPEAKS)

When does marriage begin between a man and a woman? Does it begin at the end of the church service?

 

 

 

 

 

When the two agree to get married, they then set a date for a formal ceremony. And on that date of the ceremony, they will have to sign legal documents; (legal: representing the contractual agreement). On the date of the ceremony and only after the agreement is signed are they considered married by most of us world churches.

 

Also, some of our churches may or may not recognize the legal signing “only” and possibly treat the couple as “living in sin”, until or after they get an official church ceremony. 

 

Have you not read that in the beginning made He male and female and the two became one flesh. – Genesis 2:24.

No priest was born yet, no church building was built and no state was established – only dominion over the earth was given to the man by God.

When a man and a woman come together in agreement to stay together for life and then become one flesh; they are considered married in my Father’s eyes; The agreement is to not leave or forsake the other; as I do the same to My Church (My Bride and my Wife). Also, as God in the old testament to Israel (his wife) – Read the book of Hosea.

 

Have you not read as it is written, Abram took Hagar (Sarai’s maid) and he took her to wife? Again, there was no ceremony, no priest or state involvement. When Abram knew Hagar in the tent, they became one flesh (married at that point) – Genesis 16:3

 

Have you not read that Isaac took Rebekah into his mother’s tent and he knew her and she became his wife at this point. Yet again, there was no ceremony, no priest or state involvement – Genesis 24:67

 

Even my servant Paul mentioned it in his letter to the church at Corinth. After some in the church knew harlots (prostitutes), even in the absence of an agreement, I might add, they were still becoming “one flesh”. - Corinthians 6:16

 

In My Fathers eyes you were created in the image of God. Becoming one flesh is much more than two bodies coming together. After becoming one flesh, in my own words I said, “What God has joined together, let no man put asunder” – Matthew 19:6.

That is why it is no light thing when two people join as one flesh. Also, remember when my servant Paul cautioned the Church against this sin. - 

1 Corinthians 6:16

 

In Summary (TTGM):

The “world’s church” is in error here. The result is that they are marrying adulterers at their altars. People that have already become one flesh with someone else and now seeking to marry another, not knowing of this truth – Read Mark 8:38 and Hosea 4:6.  

Marriage begins at becoming one flesh and not at the pronouncement of a man or by the certification of the state. God is above all, both state and priest (man). visit ref. document(s) 1 and 1b.

 

The authority to marry or to choose not to marry was given to the man and the woman by God. And this was from the beginning.

 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

Let him that has an ear to hear, let him hear.

 

If two people (man and woman) that were virgins from the start, meet each other and decide to get married. They then both go privately and know* each other, are they sinning in God’s eyes? (without church or state involvement in marriage)

 

 

*Knowing (or to Know) is the correct rendering for two people coming together (or becoming one flesh) as given by the Word (God) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they are doing wrong in God’s eyes, It is SIN. They are committing fornication. They are committing sexual immorality. They need to get the official blessings of the church as well as the state’s involvement with the legal paperwork to take care of both the spiritual and natural side of marriage. 

 

No, they have not sinned in God’s eyes. The world’s church does err on this too. Did Adam sin with Eve? Did Isaac sin with Rebekah? No, none sinned. I did not include Abram as he was not a virgin when he lay with Hagar. However, you might ask, did Abram sin by having a second wife? This I will answer under another subject title.

 

The state was never given the authority by My Father to decide who or when persons can get married (becoming one flesh). Control over marriages was given to the state by the state. In time I will judge these states/nations against my commandments and the prophets. Be patient. 

visit ref. document(s) 1b

 

I note that you use the word “know” or “to know” or “knew” when becoming “one flesh”. This is indeed correct. You have kept my word and not allowed the deceiver to deceive you to use another word that disparages the meaning of coming together as “one flesh”. The same way a man knows his wife, I too want to “know” my church and in turn I want my church to “know” me.* By the way, another word that I never intended to be used by the world church is “gay” (happy, lighthearted and carefree). In my word, I have never called people that practice this sinful lifestyle “gay”. I would that the world’s churches understand that words have power in the minds of men, both to pull down and to lift up. This “gay” word actually lifts up something that I have called an abomination. I will forever love the person, but this practice of men lying with men is an abomination to me and I will judge.

 

TTGM - You may ask what should the word be? This will be shared in an upcoming article called, “What every Homosexual should know”. Register your name for updated and new articles.

 

In Summary (TTGM):

If it was not a sin for two virgins to come together privately or otherwise in the Old Testament, why would it be a sin now?

 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

Let him that has an ear to hear, let him hear.

 

1.       Is there scripture supporting the following: Should two virgins (male and female) come together and know each other is this the SIN of fornication?

 

Follow up Question from answer 1.

2.       Yes, I understand and agree with Ezekiel 16:26 however on the second point that you made, If a man is married to a woman in Matthew 19:9, and she commits a sexual sin (pornea), this allows for divorce (in God’s eyes), Why then did Jesus not use the Greek word for adultery? Noting the Greek word for adultery is completely different than “pornea”; as you know the word for adultery used in the selfsame chapter and verse is μοιχάωmoichao (moy-khah'-o). Is not adultery the same as a wife having sex with another man? Again, if this is the case, why then did Jesus make this distinction between pornea and moichao, could he not just say moichao and finish the response here? Am I missing something here?

 

 

1.       Yes, In Ezekiel 16:26, the sin of fornication is mentioned here. Also Jesus said in Matthew 19:9, that a man can put away his wife only after or except it be for fornication (nothing else will allow for divorce). In other words if he (the husband) is married to a woman and she commits fornication, he the man can divorce her. The word used for fornication in Matthew is πορνείαporneia (por-nei'-ah).

 

Follow up Answer to question 2.

2.       Hmmm, interesting, I will get back to you on this one. Will check with my world church leaders.

 

We have written to twenty four ministers by email and to date we have not received a response to the question. .

 

1.

Yes, fornication is a sin, but in the context of the question, as I said before, it is not a sin when a man and a woman come together in a committed relationship to each other and become one flesh. Promising not to leave or forsake each the other as I with my church (my bride and wife). This is right in the sight of God.

--- --- ---

For me to explain the second question, I must define two words (fornication - porneia &adultery - moichao ).

 

Fornication - porneia

When a man comes together with an unmarried woman (virgin) and not intending to commit to her (leaving and forsaking her after becoming one flesh), this is the sin of fornication as described by my servant Paul, when some in the church were becoming one flesh with harlots/prostitutes. Becoming one flesh was never intended to be used this way. Another way to look at it is that this bond should NEVER be broken after it is established between two people. The word fornication can relate to other sexual sins, but this definition is given in the context of a male and female relationship.

 

Adultery - moichao

On the other hand the sin of adultery is when a man knows (“have had sex” for those that have not caught up as yet) another man’s wife.

 

*---*

2

Now to answer your second question, when I was speaking to the people in the book of my servant Matthew, I was speaking primarily to a Jewish audience. When I said that the only exception for divorce was fornication, I meant a marriage that was not yet consummated. Or the two had not yet become “one flesh’. You see when a man and a woman agree to be married (become one flesh) it is seen as a binding commitment, even more binding to what you in the west call an engagement. In fact if it is broken off, a letter of divorce is also given as in the case of a consummated marriage (Moses allowed this divorce by letter, not God – Matthew 19:8). This type of union is also referred to as a betrothal. Who I spoke to would have known what I was speaking about. This was the context of my response.  

 

You see if a woman is betroth to a man (or sworn to marry a man), and then she has uncommitted knowing (sex) with a second man, she would understand that she cannot be married to two men at the same time. In other words, if a woman knows that she is already committed to a man and she decides to go with different man, she knows that she cannot break the first commitment. So she has to have uncommitted relations (knowing). This is why I used the word fornication (porneia) or uncommitted knowing. visit ref. document(s) 1a.

 

So the next question then, is there a cause for divorce if the two persons are in a consummated relationship? The simple answer is NO – only fornication is allowed for the two to part ways. My disciples understood this, which is why they said that “it is good not to marry”. They understood that there was no “escape” from such a union, so it would have been better to stay alone. Or, their thinking was, why be in something that may turn evil and there was no way out – Matthew 19:10

 

Again, you may ask, can I give an example? You are really pressing me, but yes, I can.

 

Remember the story about my step Father, Joseph. He was betrothed to the woman called Mary that I was born to in the fullness of time. When he found out that she was with child, he could only conclude that she fornicated (again, could not be adultery as she was not yet consummated in marriage to Joseph – only to the Holy Ghost). So what did he do? He was planning to put her away privately (divorce). Let me digress here for a bit. Joseph was chosen to be my step father because he was a man that was upright in all his ways (a just man) and followed the commandments and the prophets all his life. At the time of finding out about the woman’s condition, he was very hurt and he could have chosen to put her away publicly. But given the nature of the man he was, he still did not want to disgrace her even when he too was feeling disgraced and embarrassed by her for what she did (he believed at the time). The angel visited him and the rest is history.

 

In Summary (TTGM):

To fully understand the context of Matthew 19:9 as described above, you will need to be familiar with the Jewish traditions at the time. Use the tool of the internet, visit Jewish sources of knowledge from time to time and get their perspectives and insight.

visit ref. document(s) 1a.

 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

Let him that has an ear to hear, let him hear.

 

If a man got married to a woman and they divorced. And should the woman marry again to another man after the divorce, is this sin? And if it is sin, should we as believers support the wedding? Should this wedding be blessed by the priest/pastor?

Well some of us world churches would not touch this couple with a 10 foot pole if one or both were divorced and the previous spouse is still alive based on what Jesus said in Matthew 19:9. In fact when the disciples heard what the only reason for divorce was, they said that it would be “good not to marry” -  see Matthew 19:10

 

On the other hand a number of other world churches will welcome this couple with open arms no matter what the cause of divorce was.

 

It all depends on which world church you visit. It is important to remember that we are all under grace and we will be forgiven for all of our sins. Not saying that we divorce with the intention to sin in marriage to someone else, in order to move on; just saying, we will be forgiven.

 

 Yes, it Is sin for a woman to leave her husband and become one flesh with another, if the first husband is still alive. If she does this, she is to be called an adultress all the days of her life or until the husband before dies – read Matthew 19 1-10 and Romans 7:1-3.

Now that you know it is a sin for a woman to remarry while the first husband is alive, do you yourself support this union as a believer in me? Maybe you should ask, “would I the Lord support it”?

 

Yes, you are under grace and I will forgive, but to go against my commandments and the prophets, only means that you are no longer to be judged by the law (no stoning for you as in the case with the woman caught in adultery that was brought to me – john 8:7), but you will be judged by me at my judgment seat for your sins. Grace is no excuse to sin. And if you now know right and continue to sin, my judgment will be greater against you.  

 

In Summary (TTGM):

People that are called by the name of Christ do not know all the words of the scripture on this subject. This is because they are not given the knowledge by the priest (Pastors, Bishops, Teachers, Husbands {heads of the home}), they have little or no understanding of what they are doing and the ramifications for eternity.

 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

Let him that has an ear to hear, let him hear.

 

Article Summary for all pages 1-4:

If you can find no fault in the responses given by “the Word”, then you must conclude the following.

1.       Premarital sex (knowing) does not exist. How can it exist if becoming one flesh is marriage and binding by God – Matthew 19:6

 

2.       In God’s eyes it's no longer called dating after the first experience of knowing (consummation); Its husband and wife and no man or state can change this fact. Is man greater than God?

 

3.       After the world’s church and the state defined marriage to begin at the point of the ceremony; after the year 1545 – visit ref. document(s) 1b, afterwards people naturally thought that the sin of adultery could only occur with someone that was part of a ceremony (or who may wear a ring). With this false understanding, its no wonder why Jesus would refer on his return to an adulterous and sinful generation/people (in times past and more so now) - Mark 8:38. Its also interesting to note that since adultery is sin, why would our Lord separate out adultery in Mark 8:38. Why did he not lump it all together and just say sinful generation only? Something for you to ponder on. HINT: maybe it is so evil and RAMPANT that He gave it special attention.

 

4.       The definition of fornication prior to year 1545 was to have uncommitted knowing with someone (or lying with someone with no intention to stay in the relationship). After the year 1545 the definition of fornication changed to knowing (or lying with) someone before the “church/state” ceremony of marriage. Putting it another way, after 1545 if two people “lived” together, had children together and were committed to each other, they were now defined by the world’s church as “living in sin” or living in fornication (because there was no official ceremony or signing of documents). Before the famous meeting in 1545, it was accepted by the then church that people that “lived together” were man and wife. This would have been in agreement with the Biblical principle as demonstrated by the three examples given by TTGM “Jesus”. In short the church got it right prior to 1545 (man got it wrong after 1545).

 

5.       A couple that visits a world church and “live together” are not living in sin if they never gone through a ceremony and a “blessing”. They are just as married as the person that had a ceremony (or more so; they may have started out being both virgins in their relationship) – as was the case before 1545 visit ref. document(s) 1b  . Should Isaac and Rebekah come back to live again and visit a church, will their marriage in the tent be recognized? God recognized it by calling Rebekah, Isaac’s wife. Who has the higher authority? God or the world’s Church?

 

6.       Divorced women that enter into a second knowing (one flesh relationship), do so by the sin of adultery.

 

7.       The Greek word for “marriage” is “gamos” (γάμος). The Greek word for sexual intercourse* is “gamo” (γαμώ). Based on the word construction, both Gamos and Gamo have a shared meaning. 

 

8.       Even the meaning of the word “bastard” that we use in modern day English is different in the context of marriage. The modern day meaning given to bastard is, a person born to parents that are not "married". However, the Hebrew meaning to the word bastard (H4464 מַמזֵר mamzer) is a person born to a Jewish man that lies with a heathen mother (a non-Jewish woman). In other words if the parents of a person were both Jews the person would not be called a bastard (the term simply would not apply). Again, nothing to do with marriage, since marriage is Gamos (see item 7).

 

9.       You may have noticed that we have focused on the women committing adultery more so than the man. This is done purposely because it is in keeping with what the Word of God teaches. This will be discussed further in another titled article that is soon to be published. We encourage you to register your email with us to get updates to this article as well as others to come.

 

 

Now that you have read the complete four page article, the following verses from the book of Matthew and Mark should come as no surprise (we took the liberty to add to the word, so you will better understand - see Matthew 7:22 in bold RED).

 

[Matthew 7:21-27]

21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? (And have we not married in your name),and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Matthew 15:9]

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Mark 8:38]

38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words (from the Logos)in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

 

*The English word for “Gamo” is really “fu.k**” and not sexual intercourse (means the same thing).  Go to Google and use search string “the Greek word for marriage”, and then search string “the Greek word for fu.k”.

 

** -  fu.k is not a cuss word to describe “sex”, it was a word used since the 1500s. Hollywood has helped to distort this word like so many others.

 

 

WE AT TTGM STAND READY TO ANSWER ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THE STATED CONCLUSION OF THIS ARTICLE. WE WILL ALSO PUBLISH YOUR ARGUMENTS ON THIS WEBSITE

MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL ARE ESPECIALLY WELCOMED TO CONTACT US

 

 

 

 

This article was written to share the truth of God’s Word to the church as it relates to when marriage between a man and a woman begins. When the church truly teaches, “it is written”, then we stand with them on the side of Truth. It is and has been a very controversial subject for the researcher/writer of these pages, but our Lord was not one to shun controversy. He was not one to seek the favor of men; for Him TRUTH came before life and for Truth he died. Are you prepared to die for the Truth?

 

The Greatest Love of all (John 3:16) 

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

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All quotations have been taken from the "King James Version" of the Bible
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